#tik
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olme 18:51
hi all ...
GivanBela 18:52
fine fine, els can you also login into #tok for the hi's and hello's and goodbyes? (and sposob too?)
we are starting in 7 minutes sharp hihi 18:53
elsvanriel 18:53
i thought i am
GivanBela 18:54
ah yes oops sorry did not see
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GivanBela 18:59
annemie just in time we are starting now...
so 18:59
going to write a littel for let's say a couple of minutes and then we can discuss it if needed 19:00
to structure it better please announce some things in the tok box and then we can give the "floor" here... ok? 19:00
structure today = 1 hour 19:00
and hope we are getting through the following subjects 19:00
1 so far what is done 19:00
2 workshop writing tiks 19:00
3 workshop padma 19:00
so here we go, please I am referring a lot to the wiki and hope you all know where that is (agenda and descrptions) 19:01
http://timeinventorskabinet.org/wiki/doku.php 19:02
(recently isjtar cleaned it up a little) 19:02
so, here we go 19:02
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GivanBela 19:02
1
actually the project has been starting up so far since july 19:02
and there were already a couple of events meant to initiate certain activities 19:02
first Open Greens Expert Meeting in Graz 19:02
then the infamous Opening event in Brussels 19:03
the preparatory unofficial preworkshop about windclocks fabrication at Hranice/Kravin (cz) 19:03
the col-me partner meeting and online conference in Bratislava 19:03
fnally the really really first workshop wind clock making in Korcula Croatia 19:03
and hope I am not forgetting anything 19:03
as you can see already, the things I am mentioning are the official events set up in the application for TIK 19:03
people were working in between on things of course 19:04
now 19:04
guess there was a lot of documentation made of all kinds (pictures, movies, text, sound, etc...) so the question arises how we are going to deal with that all 19:04
first and loathsome possibility is to make official reports and accounting and hand in the project when it is over hihi 19:04
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GivanBela 19:04
more interesting in the light of the publications and conferences is to try to fit ideas and descriptions
but the first question is always how shall we do that 19:05
in a common and interesting way, and relevant to the bottom strategeies we are using 19:05
so was looking for the first workshops that are coming up into some less speculative ways of describing events 19:05
esp. the question what kind of events/actions/activities do we generate 19:05
and how can we go from a purely descriptive level (with all possible media) 19:05
to a more abstract level in which we can link certain similarities and oppositions over time and across these activities 19:05
so the first workshop soon will be about different experimental strategies and methods for looking into: existing material and new things altogether, trying to build up some kind of idea of what kind of content and processes and skills are we really deploying here... looked into quite some different techniques like 19:06
- new kind of "fieldnotes from wind clock construction sites" and "open greens" 19:06
- coding texts and other media to go from content descriptions only later to gradually abstractions, in order to build explicit new insights into what we are doing, using theory only later as purely referential not a starting point 19:06
- relating it to the online tools we are using already and will use more extensively 19:06
our clocks mailing list 19:06
the wiki 19:06
pad.ma (using annotations, descriptions, links, subtitles for that purpose) 19:06
so that is the angle for the coming up workshops and in 3 days we want to make a beginning 19:07
it is really an experiment tackling the things we do on all levels 19:07
from creating artefacts to data to code etc .. the whole bunch in a convergent approach 19:07
somehow it is an effort of creating a common method of dealing with it 19:08
and thinking about the aesthetics and poetics of representation 19:08
inscribing it on all the levels mentioned above 19:08
in order to take it one step further as a creative machine 19:08
documentation here should become a blueprint or a score 19:08
for making new things (not the other way round // not interested in writing fake histories) 19:08
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GivanBela 19:09
the program is yet (took it from the wiki)
17-19 November 2010, OKNO.be Brussels 19:09
In a concise 3-day program, we try to lay the foundations for a common style in treating the TIK themes and materials. Conform to the purpose of the 2-year project, and its bottom-up but collaborative strategies, we deal with the several blind spots that are still open for thinking about a changed creative output in any media form: text, code, image, sound, word,... The real subject of workshops is closely related to t 19:09
he TIK project scheme and deals with: 19:09
- the available documentation of the previous events and activities 19:09
- the representation and creative media writing throughout the project 19:09
- the outline of a common strategy for dealing with artistic research currently 19:09
- the content of the future conferences and publications 19:09
Daily we organize 5 short and to-the-point 1-hour sessions: working scheme, theoretical intro, practical exercises, evaluation/aftertalk and online reviewing. The themes of the planned days are as following: 19:09
12.11.2010 // 18h: Preliminaty online preparation: a TIK chat on the missed Guy Fawkes' Night... 19:09
17.11.2010 // 11h: Introduction, and the TIK-methodology of writing with all-media 19:09
18.11.2010 // 11h: Aestetical, and stylistic considerations of TIK-writing with media 19:09
19.11.2010 // 11h: From papers to abstractions, or how TIK-writing can make media 19:09
pffff not too fast? 19:09
what do you think? 19:09
isjtar 19:09
uch too fast
much that is 19:09
GivanBela 19:09
actually who will be participating actively in this first workshop
ok will sit still and give time to read, reread... 19:09
annemiemaes 19:10
I will participate
ink__ 19:10
i will participate
elsvanriel 19:10
me too
olme 19:10
I'll be there
isjtar 19:11
i'm part of the decoration anyway ; )
GivanBela 19:11
also, does it make sense also for the others who are working on other parts of the project, like programming and .. decorating hum and making art
annemiemaes 19:11
i think so, as you said :all media
it's a collective thing 19:12
GivanBela 19:12
hope so
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vilda 19:12
ek finally
hi 19:12
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GivanBela 19:13
it all depends how we get through the things - and if it is working out for the stuff we are doing
elsvanriel 19:14
the workshop will show, no?
GivanBela 19:14
it is a real experiment with our material that should yield a better view of what we have and where transversal points are between rhetorical crews, planters and gardeners, patchers sketchers and programmers, and other artefacts (human or not)
yes yes 19:14
also - we will do a daily update these days in the chat, explaining what we did (not) do and what did (not) work out 19:14
so other people in the second workshop and conference can relate better to it 19:15
annemiemaes 19:15
maybe it is interesting that participants take already a closer look at the docu that is online yet (wiki, padma, other ...)
GivanBela 19:15
are there still questions about this first workshop [writing tiks]?
annemiemaes 19:16
before the workshop, I mean
GivanBela 19:16
yes if there are practical things or things are not clear
ink__ 19:17
will we also be writing or just preparing?
GivanBela 19:18
really hope to do practical exercises with the existing material - schoolwork in class hihi, no not that bad but we really going to take time to write with media and go slowly from coding media to building up local theories about the material we can discuss and work out again
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annemiemaes 19:19
will try to upload some more stuff on monday/tuesday
korcula & kravin 19:20
olme 19:20
so one question maybe : what is the media base available now that is going to be used ?
GivanBela 19:20
think it is an important step in the working process, to find the right methodological angle, the right stylistic (can be subjective too) angle...
right _ like I mentioned above, would like to start with all the possible material we have 19:20
we look at it and see how we can work with it in a common way: video, pictures, text, audiofiles, ... 19:21
is that what you mean olme? 19:21
or do you mean in what environment? 19:21
wiki - list - pad.ma 19:21
olme 19:22
so starting using the documentation about the project in itself, like some sort of ontological base ... ?
GivanBela 19:22
yes yes
now it is just documentation, and very descriptive 19:22
we want to work towards th conferences, publications and presentations, maybe the artworks itself 19:23
isjtar 19:23
is the wrting documentation or are ther eother goals?
GivanBela 19:23
well that is why I wrote above
in order to take it one step further as a creative machine 19:23
<GivanBela> documentation here should become a blueprint or a score 19:23
but let's see how far we can go with it 19:24
guess we have to write boring reports and make accounting for the project 19:24
ink__ 19:24
score is an interesting concept for documentation
GivanBela 19:24
but then again the idea is to work at creative new formats for using materials we generate
yes that would reflect also another attitude towards the material, a more active one, less representational and descriptive maybe, but more interesting one 19:25
annemiemaes 19:25
the boring reports and accounting are a complete different section
GivanBela 19:26
(like the best literature seem always to be the never finished masterworks hihi)
annemiemaes 19:26
i presume they don't have any link with writing tiks
GivanBela 19:26
don't worry won't touch them now hihi
anything else? then let's look at the pad.ma thingie 19:26
and it is a continuation of the first for the ones that followed the first (writing tiks) 19:26
we will continue and try to work out the creative writing sessions into media writing sessions 19:27
and use pad.ma in a critical way to implement the built up methodology 19:27
there will be a parallell activity going on, but hope to bring it together gradually 19:27
- the technical setup and problems of the online pad.ma program 19:27
- the use of pad.ma within the tik project 19:27
- some artistic/creative ideas with pad.ma 19:27
and for each of those things we will have different people looking into it specifically but working together (we hope) 19:27
so in the end it comes together in the conference... on 26th 19:27
look - still about the 2 very related workshops - 19:27
if it all fails we will try something else, but at least it can be the beginning of thinking of something new: 19:27
another type of presentations, artworks and activities instead of the conform and traditional articles and conferences and publications at the end... 19:27
that is all I am having to say now about it... but maybe other people who are also setting up the pad.ma workshop can explain more if there are questions? 19:28
so no questions about the pad.ma workshop? 19:29
sposob 19:29
is someone who will do the padma workshop here in the chat?
annemiemaes 19:29
me
GivanBela 19:30
me
isjtar 19:30
j^ 19:30
me too
GivanBela 19:30
olme
olme 19:30
"do" = follow or give ... ?
sposob 19:30
give
annemiemaes 19:30
we all give and we all follow
elsvanriel 19:30
me
sposob 19:30
jan? or any of the othre two?
give? technically!!! 19:30
j^ 19:30
jan would be me
olme 19:31
GivanBela 19:31
ahhh no I will follow mainly and try to implement the things from the prev. workshop in it, and try to make an active user section
annemiemaes 19:31
content and technique make a whole
sposob 19:31
so - i am simply curious how the setup will look like of the padma workshop - kind of is there a preliminary idea of how and where to start already?
GivanBela 19:31
and bring progress in our lives
olme 19:32
so yes basicaly there is all level of support in this workshop
sposob 19:32
means?
GivanBela 19:32
like I mentioned above the workshop will of course combine
- the technical setup and problems of the online pad.ma program 19:32
- the use of pad.ma within the tik project 19:32
- some artistic/creative ideas with pad.ma 19:32
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GivanBela 19:33
guess there will be some parallell lines happening, but then we can easily work together at the user level, no?
annemiemaes 19:33
we can start with an overview of the wishlist on the padma wikipage
sposob 19:33
yes - i know. but how will that happen? just curiuos how you imagine that....
ok - i see you don't understand my question really. nevermind 19:34
annemiemaes 19:35
i think it would be a good idea that jan explains a bit the tech setup - i mean not how to use padma, but how padma works on a server
GivanBela 19:35
we will work out the first days of the next week (annemie is supposed to organize it) a daily schedule - is that what you mean?
annemiemaes 19:35
the possibilities and limitations, basically
sposob 19:35
kind of.
annemiemaes 19:35
and than we can see what we would like ...
GivanBela 19:35
and annemie is going to give an intro for novices
j^ 19:36
we can show some of the things people have done with pad.ma as a platform
GivanBela 19:36
and also every day I will work with the participants of the former workshop and newly interested ones in continuing annotation-code-memo etc...
sposob 19:36
will you introduce pan.dora as well?
GivanBela 19:36
related to the possibilities of pad.ma
annemiemaes 19:36
hehe --- several times I explained how to use it - here online
j^ 19:36
run through the technical features
GivanBela 19:36
nice
annemiemaes 19:36
the workshop will start further, not with the novices I gues ... everybody has time to check it out before ...
j^ 19:37
if everybody knows it we can also start with bugs, missing things and features we are working on right now
olme 19:37
better that ... I think there is much to discuss as ideas and wishes
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sposob 19:37
ok - i just wanted to ask, whether it kind of goes over a 'wishlist' - anyway - for me is important to do some bugfixing and stuff - but we can discuss this later, if i am blocking the chat..
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annemiemaes 19:39
we can have a short meeting sunday afternoon, when you all arrive, to discuss the practical setup of the next day
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olme 19:39
bugs and wishes are equally important in the long term anyway
GivanBela 19:40
no no I guess there will be a parallel session in which people interested in the nuts and bolts of the program as a program will be involved, while users explore the program on it s functionality and also will have wishes and problems of a different kind
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sposob 19:40
of course they are - i didn't want to make a hierarchy - i think i cannot really express what i want to know now...
GivanBela 19:41
annemie, we already discussed it some weeks ago and have it in my notes, let's finalize the schedule (in which everyone is present with his/her wishes) and post it like tuesday or wednesday, ok?
annemiemaes 19:41
that happens sometimes
j^ 19:41
yes, if there are enough people to have two tracks we should look into that, or have some time to hack on/play with etc
GivanBela 19:41
exactly, yippee
annemiemaes 19:41
what do you mean, guy?
GivanBela 19:41
but jan how do you see pad.ma and pan.ora within TIK - is it similar and sharing features or quite different (or am I runnning ahead of the workshop now?)
j^ 19:42
something to find out in the workshop i think
GivanBela 19:42
ok
any more questions about the pad.ma workshop? 19:42
isjtar 19:43
no sounds good to me
GivanBela 19:43
so here comes the third part, the conference on 26th
we called it "conference of the conferences" 19:43
j^ 19:43
we are working on pan.do/ra right now and hope to switch pad.ma the site to it soon, so for TIK both might be interesting
GivanBela 19:43
ok nice, looking forward to hearing more about it in 2 weeks
so 19:43
we called it "conference of the conferences" 19:43
because the good and bad thing is that it is in the proposal not defined at all 19:43
so we can do with it what we want 19:43
I said bad because it is a danger that it becomes a conventional garbage collector 19:44
with people talking about not so relevant things within the tik project 19:44
so that is why we want to relate it on 26th to evaluating 19:44
- the previous period 19:44
- the 2 workshops 19:44
- ideas we are developing in the future 19:44
so it can be conference of conferences because it can set up a program for the coming eco time conferences 19:44
(rather a round table with the participants now, mini presentations and mostly definining potential in what has to come) 19:44
see the program tik for 2011 maybe for what it can be about: 19:44
http://timeinventorskabinet.org/wiki/doku.php 19:44
who will be there and participate? 19:44
annemiemaes 19:45
at your service!
leonorka 19:45
i am coming
isjtar 19:45
represent
elsvanriel 19:45
will be there
leonorka 19:46
so it will be more like an evaluation of what has been done so far, or?
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m_do 19:46
nop still in the other side of the world
olme 19:46
i'll be there too
sposob 19:46
i am there too
GivanBela 19:46
I hope we can stream it?
olme 19:46
whynot ?
m_do 19:47
hope so to
GivanBela 19:47
together with a chat for questions from the non physical ppl
m_do 19:47
nice
GivanBela 19:47
are there questions from anyone about the eco time conference
ok we are getting tired i guess 19:48
annemiemaes 19:48
it will be a small committee conference (i mean, besiders us only a few more participants)
purpose is to have a critical discussion with the few newcomers and the habituees 19:49
GivanBela 19:49
well well who knows, maybe it is becoming popular now pop music is so boring these days: eco time conferences as peformances
annemiemaes 19:49
ha great -- looking forward to it
GivanBela 19:49
actually hope there will be some critical people except all of us
from brussels and around 19:50
vilda 19:50
I maybe too
annemiemaes 19:50
yes, everybody can invite people --
elsvanriel 19:50
I'll ask ludo, is he critical enough?
annemiemaes 19:51
hahaha
GivanBela 19:51
anyways we will also bring the full program in the course of the week, tuesday or wednesday, and please send it around to interested ppl online and present
now _ one last thing and then we end 19:51
m_do 19:51
is ther any meeting on the tecnical part, server and so on?
GivanBela 19:51
anyway it is good to see the events already afterwards for january -etc...
I guess isjtar is setting up already some kind of team for tackling server and protocol development, anything about that? 19:51
we think it is a crucial and last of the major technical things... so... maybe we better talk about it better next weeks 19:51
and also set up a special returning chat line for people involved and who want to be involved in this 19:51
sposob 19:51
m_do: you mean on one of the workshops now?
m_do 19:52
yes but it seemed something in parallel
sposob 19:52
kind of - basically we should have in the coming times a meeting about it.
it is not specified yet though. 19:52
GivanBela 19:52
I guess it is building up more from haveing everyone together
isjtar - can you enlighten us further or is it too early 19:52
annemiemaes 19:52
sorry guys, I have to go, they are waiting for me to leave
m_do 19:53
in the talks, not the workshops
isjtar 19:53
ah talking to me
annemiemaes 19:53
see you all very soon, I'll be in contact for schedules and organisation stuff
for all questions: a 19:53
isjtar 19:53
well we have a design but no implementation
erwan starts next week 19:53
sposob 19:53
meeting?
isjtar 19:54
I will give a thorough explanation when it is clearer, doesn't make much sense in a chat
sposob 19:54
ok
m_do 19:54
i agree
GivanBela 19:54
ok shall we wrap up?
annemiemaes 19:54
bye for now!
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GivanBela 19:54
anything anyone wanted to ask but did not get the opportunity for?
m_do 19:55
but the design will be a work in progress until jan
GivanBela 19:55
a last word about the okno programmation 2011 and then will stop here
isjtar 19:55
yeah lets wrap up i'm cookin already : )
GivanBela 19:55
we are changing all our plans and will do a continuous series throughout the year, hopefully monthly
- experimenting with windmills and windclocks (getr) 19:55
- doing physical computing with boards and sensors, and the necessary output to open source programming (supercollider, processing, pd etc) (isjtar, olme) 19:55
- the open green development, the database of plants, the bees etc... (annemie) 19:55
- the continuation of "writing" media and working with them (emerging aesthetics within ecological media arts) (g) 19:55
m_do 19:56
ok see you time to sleep anyway
GivanBela 19:56
voila now you can all cook eat drink run sleep stand fall _ but see you the coming weeks online or at okno/nadine yippeee
salut 19:56
elsvanriel 19:56
see you next week
m_do 19:56
sa wa di kap
ink__ 19:56
tsk
m_do 19:56
or something like this
GivanBela 19:57
dovidenia
nashledanou 19:57
vilda 19:57
well bye everybody
cus 19:57
sposob 19:57
caute
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ink__ 19:57
hadetriktig godt
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GivanBela 19:57
olala you speak gothic language
hihi 19:57
ciao 19:58
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