(02:53:34 PM) The topic for #tik is: tik tak - 3rd session on 26 @ 3pm GMT+2
(02:56:00 PM) eye-of-okno has changed the topic to: tik - meeting channel -
(02:56:07 PM) GivanBela: arrived
(02:58:08 PM) isjtar: chat part 3 revenge of the moderators
(02:58:21 PM) GivanBela: no no that is in tok
(02:58:35 PM) GivanBela: and tak is still for technical problems
(03:00:08 PM) Danielle_r [~Danielle@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(03:00:45 PM) eye-of-okno has changed the topic to: tik = meeting channel - tok = structured channel - tak = technical channel
(03:01:18 PM) luke_m [~chatzilla@ip-62-143-206-252.unitymediagroup.de] entered the room.
(03:01:54 PM) abby [~abby@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(03:03:07 PM) GivanBela: 5 mins, tik?
(03:03:39 PM) alleg [~sposob@chello089173092156.chello.sk] entered the room.
(03:03:43 PM) natrYX [~natrYX@205.52.broadband11.iol.cz] entered the room.
(03:06:23 PM) GivanBela: <GivanBela_> so we are having 3 boxes running now
(03:06:23 PM) GivanBela: <GivanBela_> tik for the general discussion
(03:06:23 PM) GivanBela: <GivanBela_> tak for the technical problems if any
(03:06:23 PM) GivanBela: <GivanBela_> and tok for the moderated chat if you want to and to say hello to each other
(03:06:51 PM) GivanBela: hi everyone, shall we start a little?
(03:07:04 PM) Danielle_r: is that tech probs with the chat?
(03:07:12 PM) Danielle_r: or in gerenal?
(03:07:20 PM) gj_ [~chatzilla@93-136-27-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] entered the room.
(03:07:25 PM) GivanBela: technical problems with the chat
(03:07:28 PM) Danielle_r: ok
(03:07:38 PM) GivanBela: ok hi kruno - repeating this once in a while now:
(03:07:40 PM) GivanBela: <GivanBela_> so we are having 3 boxes running now
(03:07:40 PM) GivanBela: <GivanBela_> tik for the general discussion
(03:07:40 PM) GivanBela: <GivanBela_> tak for the technical problems if any
(03:07:40 PM) GivanBela: <GivanBela_> and tok for the moderated chat if you want to and to say hello to each other
(03:08:09 PM) gj_: hi
(03:08:24 PM) Danielle_r: hi
(03:08:29 PM) gen_lee: hi
(03:08:31 PM) mkin: hi
(03:08:31 PM) olme: no guy… tok is not to say hello !
(03:08:34 PM) natrYX: hi
(03:08:36 PM) GivanBela: no kruno that is for tok?
(03:08:42 PM) olme: hi everyone ;)
(03:08:59 PM) GivanBela: so shall we start here in tik?
(03:09:12 PM) Danielle_r: yep
(03:09:12 PM) GivanBela: and if people want to have a more moderated line they do it on tok?
(03:09:14 PM) gj_: i guess now its even more confusing :)
(03:09:27 PM) gj_: ok
(03:09:28 PM) GivanBela: no no we do the general discussion here
(03:09:39 PM) gj_: i guess best is that you are moderator of first couple of sessions
(03:09:40 PM) GivanBela: and when you split off you go to tok, no?
(03:10:02 PM) GivanBela: so, yesterday we had a couple of nice sessions
(03:10:07 PM) GivanBela: and today let's continue
(03:10:19 PM) GivanBela: about yesterday, still questions and responses?
(03:10:38 PM) GivanBela: tik project is described here: http://timeinventorskabinet.org/wiki/doku.php/tikintroduction
(03:10:47 PM) GivanBela: beneath you can download the full text proposal and tentative schedule that will start in july
(03:10:56 PM) GivanBela: also for any questions put them on the clocks list the coming weeks
(03:11:07 PM) GivanBela: we wanted to have this chat already now with you to talk more in detail about interests and how to relate to the proposed project schedule (workshops, presentations, exhibitions, conferences, publications etc…)
(03:11:13 PM) GivanBela: also use the clock list for contacting each other and working out proposals and things
(03:11:15 PM) annemiemaes [~annemiema@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(03:12:47 PM) GivanBela: actually there were many additions to the wiki yesterday so thanks all for that
(03:13:19 PM) GivanBela: in today's session we can talk a little how people see time and how they want to explore this within the tik project
(03:13:38 PM) GivanBela: this morning I added also to the wiki some overview
(03:13:55 PM) GivanBela: http://timeinventorskabinet.org/wiki/doku.php/measuringtime
(03:14:21 PM) GivanBela: also gert is here on the list, and he will later on this year set up several workshops about building wind clocks
(03:14:26 PM) GivanBela: so let's talk about that too
(03:14:53 PM) GivanBela: and are there other suggestions?
(03:16:22 PM) mcu [~chatzilla@62.152.232.38] entered the room.
(03:16:47 PM) nelle_ink [~ellen@153.85-200-181.bkkb.no] entered the room.
(03:17:01 PM) gen_lee: ok, shall i tell a bit about the project I'm working on?
(03:17:10 PM) GivanBela: yo
(03:17:29 PM) GivanBela: gen_lee = gert
(03:17:30 PM) olme: do it on the tok channel then so it more clear to read afterward ;)
(03:17:32 PM) gen_lee: i guess one of the reasons gvb asked me to join tik is the project i'm currently on
(03:18:21 PM) gen_lee: ok, i switch to tok
(03:19:09 PM) jeroenuyttendael [~jeroenuyt@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(03:19:15 PM) gen_lee: in the mean time, i made a page on the wiki : http://timeinventorskabinet.org/wiki/doku.php/atkn
(03:19:21 PM) GivanBela: here we can chitchat and say hello and ask who you are etc.. the tok box is for presenting a little etc, so don't disturb there
(03:19:37 PM) gen_lee: a few bits and pieces, i'll be updating
(03:19:56 PM) gen_lee: in short : i made some sort of windcamera
(03:20:43 PM) gen_lee: two windmills, on seperate locations send image information back and forth based on energy generated by the mills
(03:22:22 PM) jeroenuyttendael: hi
(03:24:21 PM) nelle_ink: hi
(03:25:28 PM) isjtar left the room (quit: Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.2.1).
(03:26:08 PM) palo_fabus [~palo@105.155.broadband11.iol.cz] entered the room.
(03:26:35 PM) isjtar [~isjtar@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(03:26:43 PM) luke_m: hello
(03:26:56 PM) palo_fabus: hiya
(03:29:12 PM) olme: hi,
(03:29:52 PM) olme: so now Geert is explaining his sort of windclock installation on the #tok channel
(03:31:36 PM) natrYX: i am interesting in wind mills too.. a tiny skeleton one to carry with me , inspiration i got from a symbol that appears in the film of peter greenaway A walk through H it is a skeleton of windmill
(03:33:02 PM) olme: have you an image of that ? I don't understand how can a windmill have a skeleton … ?
(03:33:04 PM) natrYX: alex also is working in his own ideas on a software that simulates wind
(03:33:18 PM) natrYX: yes i have
(03:33:34 PM) natrYX: and is very interesting as a symbol
(03:34:02 PM) natrYX: how can i send it here though??
(03:34:14 PM) olme: put it in the wiki
(03:34:19 PM) natrYX: maybe in wiki when i prepare my ideas
(03:34:48 PM) mkin: check these wind skeletons: http://www.strandbeest.com/
(03:34:48 PM) natrYX: good
(03:35:34 PM) natrYX: yes i know this amazing artist : )!!!
(03:35:38 PM) mkin: there are so beautiful…
(03:36:04 PM) natrYX: yes
(03:36:57 PM) vagabond_ left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).
(03:37:34 PM) isjtar: yeah never aw them in action but it seems fantatsic
(03:37:44 PM) isjtar: only saw one in a museam :/
(03:38:28 PM) mkin: hey lets visit him, not too far..?
(03:38:38 PM) vagabond_ [~vagabond@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(03:41:36 PM) jeroenuyttendael: he lives on a beach near the Hague
(03:41:42 PM) isjtar: yes let's go thre
(03:41:56 PM) isjtar: i'm going for the typo record : )
(03:41:59 PM) nelle_ink: gen_lee: goof if the links you are posting go on the wiki
(03:42:05 PM) jeroenuyttendael: ok
(03:42:08 PM) vesna [~vesna@bdv75-14-78-249-200-57.fbx.proxad.net] entered the room.
(03:42:14 PM) GivanBela: no no on the dam that saves the area from noise from the highway
(03:42:23 PM) nelle_ink: i would like to come too, from norway …
(03:42:24 PM) pueblo [~pueblo@30-203-223-201.adsl.terra.cl] entered the room.
(03:42:33 PM) isjtar: hey ale
(03:42:44 PM) pueblo: hey isjtar ;-*
(03:42:47 PM) mkin: lets manage a tour hihi
(03:42:50 PM) GivanBela: tiktak
(03:43:00 PM) isjtar: so people joining recap:
(03:43:16 PM) isjtar: free flow discussion, hello etc here #tik
(03:43:25 PM) isjtar: technical problems #tak
(03:43:47 PM) isjtar: moderated discussion following kruno's scheme on #tok
(03:44:04 PM) pueblo: hey isjtar is there a stream?
(03:44:05 PM) gj_: hehe, are u sure isjatar?
(03:44:26 PM) isjtar: depends i think people won't understand the system but anyway
(03:44:39 PM) stefaniewuschitz [~stefanie@213162066156.public.t-mobile.at] entered the room.
(03:44:50 PM) isjtar: we have a video no sound stream on the wiki frontpage
(03:45:05 PM) pueblo: ok
(03:45:06 PM) GivanBela: and tomorrow the opposite?
(03:45:31 PM) olme: gj : up to you to moderate no ? ;)
(03:45:33 PM) nelle_ink: sound sounds silly
(03:46:41 PM) gj_: i guess its up to us olme, not on me. now we are on 2 chats, both nonmoderated? or?
(03:47:18 PM) isjtar: well moderated or not, its more oriented and gert has the thread so that should sort it
(03:47:51 PM) mcu left the room (quit: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100315083431]).
(03:49:01 PM) gnd_ [~gnd@r3ai101.net.upc.cz] entered the room.
(03:49:08 PM) gnd_: tik tak
(03:49:08 PM) isjtar: no not gnd
(03:49:13 PM) gnd_: oh well
(03:49:15 PM) GivanBela: tik tak tok
(03:49:16 PM) gnd_ left the room (quit: Client Quit).
(03:49:26 PM) isjtar: chaos ensues
(03:49:34 PM) gj_: :)
(03:49:37 PM) natrYX: chaos is my word
(03:49:58 PM) gnd_ [~gnd@itchybit.org] entered the room.
(03:50:44 PM) gnd_: hello from prague
(03:50:57 PM) GivanBela: hi from brussels and everywhere else
(03:51:04 PM) nelle_ink: i must say i understand the frustration but with a bit of patience i can also be a way of getting to now eachother or?
(03:51:35 PM) GivanBela: gnd - there is a #tik for general hi hello world stuff and a #tok where gert is presenting something now
(03:51:54 PM) mkin: cau gnd…welcome
(03:52:35 PM) gnd_: hi :)
(03:52:47 PM) gnd_: im cooking lunch now so mi time is discontinuos
(03:52:52 PM) gnd_: uous
(03:52:59 PM) GivanBela: gert is talking about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipkow_disk
(03:53:16 PM) GivanBela: and this http://atkn.org/stuff/movs/up_speed/up_speed.html
(03:53:51 PM) isjtar: does anybody want to discuss something specific on tok?
(03:54:02 PM) isjtar: so thats abby presenting now on tok
(03:54:41 PM) natrYX: unfortunately i have to go …i will follow your discussion through wiki…enjoy and can't wait to read all these beautiful ideas after midnight …:) take care all
(03:55:00 PM) magde [~c26d86c2@gateway/web/freenode/x-qqwurwsnefkltvzy] entered the room.
(03:55:08 PM) GivanBela: we will put the chat in the wiki so you can read it there
(03:55:32 PM) natrYX left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
(03:56:04 PM) Danielle_r: I've done a little research on the biofeedback time thing, would like to talk about that a little later
(03:58:21 PM) stefaniewuschitz: who is moderating this chat? i would like to hear about danielles research
(03:58:38 PM) isjtar: noone or me if you want :P
(03:58:49 PM) GivanBela: yes you
(03:58:51 PM) stefaniewuschitz: why not, isjtar
(03:59:06 PM) palo_fabus: sooner or later I would like to hear about the wind clock principle, but no rush
(03:59:15 PM) isjtar: we scheduled one hour, but we can run a bit longer
(03:59:24 PM) isjtar: so, sure ina few minutes
(04:00:31 PM) isjtar: what do you mean exactly palo? it's not really developed apart counting turns on a windmill
(04:01:16 PM) vesna: #tok
(04:01:36 PM) palo_fabus: my question is what does it got to do with time :)
(04:01:49 PM) isjtar: did you read the wiki?
(04:02:21 PM) GivanBela: roussel mon vieux
(04:02:23 PM) palo_fabus: I tried, I asked about it yesterday but was pointed only to the Roussell in French
(04:02:38 PM) palo_fabus: unfortunalety I don't speak French
(04:02:40 PM) GivanBela: oh will translate that bit later on today a little
(04:02:50 PM) isjtar: we can do that in the evening session
(04:03:12 PM) palo_fabus: thx, but maybe a basic description of principle would suffice
(04:03:26 PM) GivanBela: ok will start with it tonight
(04:03:33 PM) GivanBela: in the 7pm session
(04:03:37 PM) palo_fabus: ok
(04:04:40 PM) nelle_ink: i have to go. cu at 7!
(04:05:02 PM) GivanBela: yes yes cu later
(04:05:32 PM) isjtar: ok so danielle takes over on tok
(04:09:07 PM) isjtar: test
(04:09:52 PM) olme: ok here a little explanation about namespaces on the wiki (asked by ppl here at okno)
(04:10:13 PM) olme: the concept is simple : it's like subsection of the wiki
(04:10:18 PM) isjtar left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
(04:10:48 PM) isjtar [~isjtar@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(04:10:54 PM) olme: practicaly, it's writen like this
(04:11:02 PM) olme: namespace:pagename
(04:11:36 PM) olme: it's also like a subdirectory (actualy it is)
(04:12:10 PM) olme: so you can have same name for pages under different namespaces, like same filename under diferent directories
(04:13:06 PM) isjtar: so just when making new pages you use this syntax
(04:15:37 PM) olme: so for ex for a big section, like windclocks, we make a namespace and we can have pages under it
(04:16:48 PM) olme: like windclocks:atkn , windclocks:spinners , windclocks:windharps, and so on …
(04:17:49 PM) olme: but also a general page like windclock:description which will not make problem with a general page named description in the root
(04:18:51 PM) isjtar: are there more candidates for taking over the tok-thread?
(04:19:15 PM) isjtar: if not we'll round up and have the rest later
(04:23:52 PM) olme: I can just talk about my wind harps project too … ?
(04:24:03 PM) isjtar: sure but later?
(04:24:15 PM) isjtar: then we have a break
(04:24:21 PM) olme: ok …
(04:24:24 PM) isjtar: people are getting distracted i think
(04:25:47 PM) isjtar: see you i mean
(04:25:52 PM) GivanBela: thanks a million
(04:28:18 PM) Danielle_r left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
(04:28:38 PM) Danielle_r [~Danielle@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(04:33:38 PM) alleg left the room (“Leaving”).
(04:36:23 PM) gj_ left the room (quit: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100401213457]).
(04:39:14 PM) vesna left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
(04:42:11 PM) magde left the room (quit: Quit: Page closed).
(04:42:25 PM) rrh [~foo@217.75.82.130] entered the room.
(04:43:10 PM) abby left the room (quit: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
(04:43:33 PM) nelle_ink left the room (quit: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
(04:43:37 PM) abby [~abby@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(04:43:46 PM) stefaniewuschitz left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).
(04:45:18 PM) abby left the room (quit: Client Quit).
(04:51:27 PM) luke_m left the room (quit: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.0.19/2010031422]).
(05:02:46 PM) abby_ [~abby@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(05:04:55 PM) davidfloren [~davidflor@d205-250-76-112.bchsia.telus.net] entered the room.
(05:07:52 PM) davidfloren left the room (quit: Client Quit).
(05:09:04 PM) kyd_ [~kyd@dslb-094-222-056-043.pools.arcor-ip.net] entered the room.
(05:10:27 PM) kyd_: hallo over at okno
(05:10:31 PM) kyd_: nice to see u guys
(05:10:53 PM) kyd_: and ur green teacups
(05:29:34 PM) olme: Hi kyd … nice you're there :)
(05:32:04 PM) isjtar: hellohello
(05:35:09 PM) abby_ left the room (quit: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
(05:35:45 PM) gen_lee left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
(05:55:08 PM) abby_ [~abby@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(05:59:30 PM) leonorka left the room (“Leaving”).
(05:59:54 PM) Danielle_r left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
(06:22:30 PM) kyd_ left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
(06:43:11 PM) Dual_G5 [~Dual_G5@d64-180-47-38.bchsia.telus.net] entered the room.
(06:56:49 PM) Danielle_r [~Danielle@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
Danielle_r Dual_G5
(06:57:12 PM) olme: who is Dual_G5 ???
(06:57:27 PM) Dual_G5: haha .. that is me :)
(06:57:35 PM) Dual_G5: noiseart
(06:57:37 PM) Dual_G5: peter
(06:57:40 PM) olme: ok
(06:57:43 PM) olme: :)
(06:57:52 PM) Dual_G5: i will change it .. i'm on a different computer
(06:58:07 PM) GivanBela: no no we will call you dual hihi
(06:58:21 PM) vagabond_ left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
(06:58:26 PM) isjtar: well nice to have you over even oif you spam us with retro-apple-adds
(06:58:51 PM) vagabond_ [~vagabond@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(06:58:58 PM) isjtar: two minutes till lift off!
(06:59:15 PM) Dual_G5: can't even find the right preference panel on this thing :)
(06:59:42 PM) magde [~c26d86c2@gateway/web/freenode/x-gtlxxznxsqnqcnup] entered the room.
(06:59:44 PM) GivanBela: type slash nick and a new name
(06:59:50 PM) Dual_G5 is now known as noiseart
(06:59:55 PM) noiseart: ah ha!
(07:00:01 PM) noiseart: too easy
(07:00:03 PM) GivanBela: aha noiseart is back yippeee
(07:00:30 PM) GivanBela: ok ok here we go
(07:00:44 PM) GivanBela: last session for today
(07:01:19 PM) olme: so there is still some here not in the #tok channel …
(07:01:31 PM) isjtar: remember #tik = helloworld #tok = moderated discussion #tak = tech problems if any
(07:01:43 PM) stefaniewuschitz [~stefanie@chello080108121065.2.11.vie.surfer.at] entered the room.
(07:01:45 PM) GivanBela: tik for talking and tok for more in depth things
(07:02:06 PM) GivanBela: so shall we first look into the question palo has asked, roussel
(07:02:23 PM) GivanBela: now it is only in french on http://www.timeinventorskabinet.org/wiki/doku.php/raymondroussel
(07:02:51 PM) GivanBela: because i realize there is no translation available
(07:03:11 PM) GivanBela: but I put there 2 quotes
(07:03:37 PM) isjtar: ok givan moves to tok
(07:04:01 PM) isjtar: so if anyone wants to present something specific or discuss please say so here that we can have some time management
(07:04:22 PM) walla_galla [~sposob@dial-95-105-168-143-orange.orange.sk] entered the room.
(07:05:16 PM) olme: hi walla_galla
(07:05:39 PM) cuco [~chatzilla@dial-95-105-168-143-orange.orange.sk] entered the room.
(07:05:43 PM) vagabond_ left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
(07:06:31 PM) alexadem [~alex@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(07:06:31 PM) noiseart: new comers join #tok too .. as that is where givan is chatting
(07:06:41 PM) nelle_ink [~ellen@153.85-200-181.bkkb.no] entered the room.
(07:07:05 PM) vagabond_ [~vagabond@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(07:07:19 PM) nelle_ink: good evening best people, sorry to be a bit late
(07:07:57 PM) walla_galla: hi olme
(07:08:29 PM) olme: ok you've seen the trick with the channels , good :)
(07:09:02 PM) walla_galla: and the others of course as well
(07:09:20 PM) luke_m [~chatzilla@ip-62-143-206-252.unitymediagroup.de] entered the room.
(07:11:29 PM) isjtar: so again, if you want to present or discuss something specific, say so here
(07:13:20 PM) magde left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
(07:14:50 PM) magde [~c26d86c2@gateway/web/freenode/x-wpjpmcyeoykoclwg] entered the room.
(07:16:02 PM) gen_lee [~chatzilla@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(07:16:29 PM) nelle_ink left the room (quit: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
(07:17:06 PM) nelle_ink [~ellen@153.85-200-181.bkkb.no] entered the room.
(07:17:34 PM) stefaniewuschitz: yes, i would like to talk about an idea
(07:17:40 PM) stefaniewuschitz: but later, not now
(07:18:05 PM) isjtar: what's later like tomorrow?
(07:18:34 PM) noiseart: could talk about EGG project (electro-gaia-gram)
(07:18:43 PM) isjtar: ok nice,
(07:19:07 PM) isjtar: i would like to talk a bit about server apps and protocols and all that but maybe at the end of the session
(07:19:25 PM) stefaniewuschitz: well, like in 30 min?
(07:19:41 PM) isjtar: ok
(07:24:35 PM) olme: I would like to introduce briefly my connected wind harps project …
(07:26:06 PM) mkin: yes…go on…
(07:27:37 PM) stefaniewuschitz left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
(07:27:37 PM) isjtar: amybe olme can take over?
(07:29:22 PM) stefaniewuschitz [~stefanie@213162092224.public.t-mobile.at] entered the room.
(07:33:05 PM) palo_fabus: this EGG project is funny :)
(07:33:15 PM) palo_fabus: didn't know about it
(07:33:46 PM) palo_fabus: measuring the great disturbances in Force, lol
(07:34:37 PM) isjtar: so stefi are you up for some or want to wait a bit still?
(07:43:20 PM) jrhuh [~rohrh@koln-4db42c6b.pool.mediaWays.net] entered the room.
(07:43:43 PM) isjtar: discussion is on #tok
(07:50:42 PM) isjtar: any more candidates?
(07:51:15 PM) GivanBela: you said you wanted to talk about the server and protocols
(07:51:30 PM) GivanBela: maybe it would be good to do that now?
(07:52:03 PM) isjtar: yes
(07:52:16 PM) GivanBela: hop hop move to tok tok…
(07:55:37 PM) olme: damn … harry poter in the serious channel … we're in trouble !
(07:56:50 PM) GivanBela: what is that pachube
(08:07:37 PM) barak: GivanBela: akihiro's connected plant http://www.pachube.com/feeds/2263
(08:08:48 PM) isjtar: www.pachube.org pronounced patchbay
(08:11:41 PM) Danielle_r: nice a plant from japan
(08:13:51 PM) GivanBela: I feel like a little group of people want to crack the protocol / server problem and .. get started on it, will it be documented in the wiki, think it is a good start and let's see how itcan be researched and designed…
(08:15:56 PM) nelle_ink: i'll leasve that to them I think. Meanwhile, i am thinking that we might want to develop some ideas concerning the local
(08:16:14 PM) nelle_ink: wind is a very localized phenomenon i mean
(08:19:09 PM) elisabethvanriel [~elisabeth@cust-144-223-108-94.dyn.as47377.net] entered the room.
(08:19:33 PM) isjtar: ok, so that's it for today
(08:19:38 PM) olme: that is the interesting part … like aglomeration of “subjective” times …
(08:19:44 PM) isjtar: thanks all and see you tomorrow : )
(08:19:54 PM) isjtar: ooh objections
(08:19:56 PM) isjtar: :)
(08:20:02 PM) GivanBela: but let's document the things that were said here
(08:20:06 PM) GivanBela: and take it up on the list
(08:20:09 PM) Danielle_r: ok till tomorrow, from breda
(08:20:26 PM) elisabethvanriel: ok see you tomorrow, in 'flesh'
(08:20:33 PM) isjtar: kinky
(08:20:42 PM) GivanBela: realizing the time protocol and server things are something that should be discussed and decided on furhter and that are essential for the proejcts and subprojects
(08:20:54 PM) isjtar: thank you guy
(08:21:06 PM) noiseart: ty all .. cu tomorrow
(08:21:13 PM) GivanBela: thanks everyone being here
(08:21:15 PM) isjtar: byebye

(02:54:15 PM) GivanBela_ [~GivanBela@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(02:56:17 PM) eye-of-okno [~okno@193.93.114.238] entered the room.
(02:56:31 PM) GivanBela_: time is advancing now
(02:56:48 PM) eye-of-okno has changed the topic to: TOK - moderated channel
(02:58:41 PM) isjtar [~isjtar@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(02:59:32 PM) mode (+o eye-of-okno) by gen_lee
(03:03:15 PM) abby [~abby@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(03:03:26 PM) luke_m [~chatzilla@ip-62-143-206-252.unitymediagroup.de] entered the room.
(03:04:01 PM) alleg [~sposob@chello089173092156.chello.sk] entered the room.
(03:04:37 PM) vagabond_ [~vagabond@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(03:05:46 PM) mkin [~somebody@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(03:05:46 PM) natrYX [~natrYX@205.52.broadband11.iol.cz] entered the room.
(03:07:48 PM) gj_ [~chatzilla@93-136-27-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] entered the room.
(03:17:11 PM) nelle_ink [~ellen@153.85-200-181.bkkb.no] entered the room.
(03:18:42 PM) gen_lee: i wait a bit for the others to join tok
(03:19:20 PM) gj_: here
(03:19:38 PM) jeroenuyttendael [~jeroenuyt@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(03:21:04 PM) gen_lee: oeps
(03:21:13 PM) olme: lol
(03:21:14 PM) gen_lee: in the mean time, i made a page on the wiki : http://timeinventorskabinet.org/wiki/doku.php/atkn
(03:21:24 PM) gen_lee: in short : i made some sort of windcamera
(03:21:28 PM) annemiemaes [~annemiema@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(03:21:32 PM) gen_lee: two windmills, on seperate locations send image information back and forth based on energy generated by the mills
(03:21:39 PM) Danielle_r [~Danielle@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(03:23:18 PM) gen_lee: there is a movie on : http://atkn.org/stuff/movs/edit_velzeke_lowres.html
(03:23:21 PM) GivanBela_: and how does it work
(03:23:30 PM) mcu [~chatzilla@62.152.232.38] entered the room.
(03:24:04 PM) gen_lee: what you see is still very much a first setup
(03:24:04 PM) gen_lee: how it works
(03:24:34 PM) gj_: thank you gen. i will shortly say why is #tok open and how to use it. i proposed more structured form of online conversation with moderator and taking turns. few simple forms to follow: 1. moderator gives word. peole ask for time by ! and when they end they press / i can take moderating for first session, but would like to give it to givan for second
(03:24:49 PM) gen_lee: ok, the shape of the windmill is such that it forms a kind of frame
(03:25:05 PM) gen_lee: thru witch you look at the landscape
(03:25:18 PM) GivanBela_: kruno you have to say that on tik
(03:25:28 PM) isjtar left the room (quit: Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.2.1).
(03:25:57 PM) gen_lee: in front of the windmill is a small webcam connected to a computer which grabs images depending on the speed of the windmill
(03:26:19 PM) palo_fabus [~palo@105.155.broadband11.iol.cz] entered the room.
(03:26:43 PM) leonorka [~lenka@25.112.broadband10.iol.cz] entered the room.
(03:26:59 PM) isjtar [~isjtar@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(03:27:00 PM) gen_lee: this image is then transmitted to the other location
(03:27:51 PM) gen_lee: on the same time the image from the remote location is shown in the black box which stands in front of the mill
(03:28:32 PM) Danielle_r: so the idea is to have a location switch?
(03:29:01 PM) Danielle_r: I mean an inversion
(03:29:30 PM) gen_lee: some kind of, what you see thru the screen when you stand in front of the mill is indeed visuals of a remote location
(03:29:46 PM) Danielle_r: oh yes, then I understand correctly
(03:30:19 PM) gen_lee: the energy generated by the windmill ( speed at which it turns ) defines the framerate
(03:30:29 PM) mkin: ah nice…there is something related, which i posted yesterday : using wind as basic driver against the classic time / frame rate http://www.timeinventorskabinet.org/wiki/doku.php/wind_cameras
(03:31:22 PM) gen_lee: yes, i quicly read that page before joinig the chat, it is very much related
(03:31:32 PM) mkin: great
(03:31:43 PM) nelle_ink: do you use the energy for anyhig other thandefining the framrate?
(03:31:50 PM) Danielle_r: nice, having arbitrary frame rates
(03:32:42 PM) gen_lee: it is also stored on a battery to keep the computer up and running
(03:32:57 PM) nelle_ink: great. and do i understand you right: the framerate of the captured image rather than the displayed, so you manipulate the experience of time as well?
(03:33:14 PM) nelle_ink: slow vs fast motion?
(03:34:02 PM) gen_lee: yes, the idea is that i use the windspeed ( framerate ) of one location to play the images of the other location
(03:34:59 PM) palo_fabus: <gen_lee>: I understand this is the basic concept, but do you select those two places according to some rule?
(03:35:09 PM) GivanBela_: how is the frame working - is it really sensitive to the wind or does it turn very slow?
(03:35:55 PM) gen_lee: yes, that is the concept, up to now i did not yet connect two windmills
(03:36:21 PM) gen_lee: i will do so in june this year, a connection between denmark and belgium
(03:36:57 PM) vagabond_ left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).
(03:37:21 PM) gen_lee: the mill is built for the countryside,
(03:37:58 PM) gen_lee: it turns really slowly, at the fastest rate 1 turn/sec
(03:38:12 PM) gen_lee: but that is already pretty impressing if you are standing in front of it
(03:39:01 PM) gen_lee: here is a mov of the mill turning at 1turn/sec : http://atkn.org/stuff/movs/up_speed/up_speed.html
(03:39:14 PM) GivanBela_: and did you arrive to the design immediately or did you try many different designs to get there
(03:39:20 PM) vagabond_ [~vagabond@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(03:39:59 PM) gen_lee: the whole thing started a okno a few years ago when we where doing research on sustainable networks
(03:40:32 PM) gen_lee: so we were looking into windmills to generate energy, after a couple of workshops and some research i came to this desoign
(03:40:32 PM) pueblo [~pueblo@30-203-223-201.adsl.terra.cl] entered the room.
(03:41:06 PM) gen_lee: it is actually an adaptation of a windmill made by ed lenz : http://www.windstuffnow.com/
(03:41:28 PM) gen_lee: the only thing i did is built one with only two wings, because i wanted the open frame
(03:41:36 PM) abby: does it spin in two directions? does it start with low wind?
(03:42:02 PM) palo_fabus: <gen_lee>: well, but the relationship of those places can bear come significance, if we are talking art .) and that is what I am asking..
(03:42:30 PM) gen_lee: it spins in only one direction, starts automatically
(03:43:18 PM) gen_lee: i made a webpage on the wiki for those who joined later : http://timeinventorskabinet.org/wiki/doku.php/atkn
(03:43:53 PM) annemiemaes left the room (“Leaving”).
(03:43:55 PM) gen_lee: i'll also post the links i posted during the caht afterwards on the page
(03:44:29 PM) annemiemaes [~annemiema@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(03:45:11 PM) gen_lee: right now the two places are not really related, no
(03:45:41 PM) GivanBela_: but how do you plan denmark - belgium? there is a concept for connecting? based on what?
(03:46:07 PM) gen_lee: ok the relation is art and ecology
(03:47:07 PM) gen_lee: in denmark there is a festival on an island Samso : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sams%C3%B8
(03:47:19 PM) GivanBela_: so gert did you think about the workshops building wind clocks already?
(03:47:33 PM) gen_lee: yes, what i was thinking of
(03:47:51 PM) mcu left the room (quit: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100315083431]).
(03:48:02 PM) gen_lee: i really wanna refine the whole concept,
(03:48:31 PM) gen_lee: right now i use a webcam and computer, i wanna downscale this
(03:48:53 PM) stefaniewuschitz [~stefanie@213162066156.public.t-mobile.at] entered the room.
(03:49:32 PM) gen_lee: i was looking into early experiments to broadcast image
(03:49:42 PM) gen_lee: and came a cross the nipkow disk : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipkow_disk
(03:50:45 PM) GivanBela_: looks nice
(03:50:46 PM) gen_lee: and was thinking to built something alike to grab an image and broadcast it, pixel by pixel
(03:52:23 PM) gnd_ [~gnd@itchybit.org] entered the room.
(03:52:31 PM) gen_lee: to me it makes sense turn the whole thing into something that is more of a camera
(03:52:32 PM) abby: using the wind instead of a motor to spin the disk?
(03:53:11 PM) gen_lee: indedd to drive it mechanically, if possible
(03:53:48 PM) abby: my project relates
(03:54:01 PM) abby: http://pelican.asap.um.maine.edu/~stiersaz/Site_12/projects/pov.html
(03:54:40 PM) abby: words are chosen from a text based on the speed of the wind and displayed
(03:54:50 PM) abby: using persistence of vision
(03:55:05 PM) abby: on the turbine, which also charges the battery
(03:55:23 PM) abby: it needs to spin very fast to do persistence of vision
(03:55:32 PM) natrYX left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
(03:56:37 PM) GivanBela_: if I understood well, you generate the text with the turbine
(03:56:48 PM) abby: the text is written or found
(03:56:52 PM) GivanBela_: is it a computer and projector or lcd hard to see in the movie
(03:58:07 PM) abby: it is a turbine made from aluminum with a vertical row of led attached
(03:59:03 PM) gen_lee: how do you get it to spin so fast ?
(03:59:31 PM) abby: it is very light and uses a brushless motor from a cd drive
(03:59:41 PM) gen_lee: is this really done by wind only or do you use some gearing?
(03:59:51 PM) Danielle_r: what would be the spinning rate?
(04:00:00 PM) nelle_ink: just one row?
(04:00:29 PM) olme: I think it's like the ladyada POV things ? : http://www.ladyada.net/make/spokepov/index.html
(04:00:55 PM) abby: i don't know the exact rate, I used trial and error to write the code, yes it's doing pov
(04:01:03 PM) abby: no gears
(04:01:39 PM) Danielle_r: it will probably be at least 12 frames per sec
(04:01:49 PM) Danielle_r: that's standard for animation…
(04:01:53 PM) abby: but, back to the text, the microcontroller chooses words from the text based on the wind
(04:02:16 PM) abby: speed
(04:02:27 PM) vesna [~vesna@bdv75-14-78-249-200-57.fbx.proxad.net] entered the room.
(04:02:58 PM) olme: you use the cd drive motor as generator/sensor is it ?
(04:03:16 PM) mkin: what you mean based on wind…? it works as a trigger no ?
(04:03:39 PM) abby: I use a reed (magnetic) switch as a sensor to measure wind speed and the motor to charge the battery
(04:03:45 PM) olme: ok
(04:04:03 PM) abby: if the wind speed is slow it chooses words from the beginning of the text, etc.
(04:04:14 PM) mkin: okay
(04:04:19 PM) abby: it chooses a new word at a rate also determined by the wind
(04:05:36 PM) isjtar: go ahead hihi
(04:06:37 PM) Danielle_r: i've posted some stuff on the wiki today: http://www.timeinventorskabinet.org/wiki/doku.php/breathing_time
(04:06:49 PM) magde [~c26d86c2@gateway/web/freenode/x-qqwurwsnefkltvzy] entered the room.
(04:07:04 PM) Danielle_r: about the things I'm interested in concerning the body (mind) and time perception
(04:08:42 PM) Danielle_r: posted a link to an interesting article as well: http://www.timeinventorskabinet.org/wiki/doku.php/biology
(04:08:52 PM) alleg: there are concept of biorythms and waking/sleeping circles pointing in this direction as well
(04:09:00 PM) jeroenuyttendael left the room (“Leaving”).
(04:09:01 PM) jeroenuyttendael [~jeroenuyt@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(04:09:06 PM) Danielle_r: ok
(04:09:37 PM) alleg: i don't have links at hand currently, but can look things up
(04:09:39 PM) vagabond_: reading the description of your idea, you mention monitoring breath rate
(04:09:39 PM) vagabond_: what about possibilities for monitoring actual breath?
(04:09:45 PM) Danielle_r: biorythms, that's on a slightly different level
(04:09:53 PM) Danielle_r: but related I suppose
(04:10:14 PM) Danielle_r: yes i was thinking about breath sensing
(04:10:14 PM) alleg: aha - i don't know too much about it - just remember some things
(04:10:18 PM) isjtar left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
(04:10:35 PM) stefaniewuschitz: there are airsensors, but there you need to breath into a certain area
(04:10:41 PM) Danielle_r: oh, what's the exact difference?
(04:10:44 PM) stefaniewuschitz: or straw
(04:10:53 PM) Danielle_r: you mean the contents of the breath
(04:10:57 PM) isjtar [~isjtar@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(04:11:04 PM) Danielle_r: ?
(04:11:17 PM) stefaniewuschitz: are you talking to me?
(04:11:22 PM) vagabond_: like the power or force of the breath
(04:11:31 PM) Danielle_r: sorry no to vagabond
(04:12:47 PM) Danielle_r: so there's rate, volume, force
(04:12:59 PM) Danielle_r: that could all be interesting to measure
(04:13:39 PM) Danielle_r: but with regard to the subject of time perception I don't know which would be most relevant
(04:14:28 PM) Danielle_r: i know that in certain states of mind the breath rate slows down
(04:14:57 PM) Danielle_r: or speeds up
(04:15:01 PM) vagabond_: I think first order variables like the force, and volume ar emore interesting and related to the idea of wind than derived variable like rate
(04:15:30 PM) Danielle_r: from a data perspective yes
(04:16:09 PM) Danielle_r: but from the perspective of time perception, which i'm interested in, i think rate is more relevant
(04:17:20 PM) Danielle_r: @stefanie, was this also a direction you explored in your interest of time and body? what directions did you in?
(04:19:36 PM) Danielle_r: any other ideas or sugestions on this topic?
(04:20:03 PM) luke_m: wouldn't it be simpler to mesure the beating of the hart in perspective of time perception? if there is a real correlation…
(04:20:27 PM) Danielle_r: heart rate is also an option
(04:20:28 PM) isjtar: blinking of eyes is cooler :)
(04:20:28 PM) GivanBela_: galileo used heartbeats for his experiments to measure with
(04:20:45 PM) abby: why is it simpler though?
(04:20:52 PM) GivanBela_: he aybe had blinking eyes too while doing the experiments
(04:20:52 PM) Danielle_r: but breath is more easily controllable
(04:21:08 PM) Danielle_r: i always blink my eyes ;)
(04:21:09 PM) alleg: isn't heartbeat also controlled by breath?
(04:21:10 PM) isjtar: i think for hertbeat tehre is a lot of existing tech
(04:21:18 PM) isjtar: law enforcement military etc
(04:21:21 PM) isjtar: yuk
(04:21:36 PM) Danielle_r: i think they're linked
(04:21:40 PM) abby: breath can be monitored with stretch sensors or conductive material
(04:21:51 PM) Danielle_r: yes
(04:21:58 PM) isjtar: but thats qyuite invasive of the body
(04:22:02 PM) vagabond_: here is a link to something I was working on that dealt only with time perception it may only be somewhat relevant but I could put it somewhere on the wiki perhaps
(04:22:11 PM) vagabond_: http://hoonah.asap.um.maine.edu/~grossa/portfolio/projects.php?project=16
(04:22:19 PM) Danielle_r: i've got a heart-rate sensor
(04:22:49 PM) Danielle_r: i'll have to do more research to see how it relates to time perception
(04:23:07 PM) abby: breath as wind is nice
(04:23:15 PM) alleg: depends
(04:23:21 PM) alleg: on what you ate before ;)
(04:23:34 PM) Danielle_r: yes, abby that's my thought too
(04:23:47 PM) isjtar: heart and breath are linkd, but not in a rigid fashiona nd with a lot of lag
(04:24:22 PM) annemiemaes: @danielle: I uploaded a pdf on ubersleep in the breathing_time page on the wiki
(04:24:57 PM) annemiemaes: an interesting experiment on energy and time perception and biorythm
(04:25:42 PM) isjtar: ok let's wrap up, wee you at 7
(04:26:13 PM) olme: there is also this breath sensor tech used to control variation of voice : Numediart Breathing for Opera : http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x64bi3_numediart-visual-paths-video1_tech
(04:28:18 PM) Danielle_r left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
(04:28:38 PM) Danielle_r [~Danielle@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(04:33:41 PM) alleg left the room (“Leaving”).
(04:36:23 PM) gj_ left the room (quit: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100401213457]).
(04:39:14 PM) vesna left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
(04:42:11 PM) magde left the room (quit: Quit: Page closed).
(04:43:10 PM) abby left the room (quit: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
(04:43:33 PM) nelle_ink left the room (quit: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
(04:43:46 PM) stefaniewuschitz left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).
(04:51:27 PM) luke_m left the room (quit: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.0.19/2010031422]).
(05:06:27 PM) davidfloren [~davidflor@d205-250-76-112.bchsia.telus.net] entered the room.
(05:07:52 PM) davidfloren left the room (quit: Client Quit).
(05:35:45 PM) gen_lee left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
(05:59:30 PM) leonorka left the room (“Leaving”).
(05:59:54 PM) Danielle_r left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
(06:47:18 PM) barak [~dusan@multiplace.sk] entered the room.
(06:57:22 PM) Danielle_r [~Danielle@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(06:58:21 PM) vagabond_ left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
(06:58:51 PM) vagabond_ [~vagabond@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(07:00:38 PM) noiseart [~Dual_G5@d64-180-47-38.bchsia.telus.net] entered the room.
(07:01:43 PM) magde [~c26d86c2@gateway/web/freenode/x-gtlxxznxsqnqcnup] entered the room.
(07:02:09 PM) stefaniewuschitz [~stefanie@chello080108121065.2.11.vie.surfer.at] entered the room.
(07:03:39 PM) GivanBela_: but I put there 2 quotes
(07:03:50 PM) GivanBela_: one from locus solus
(07:04:10 PM) GivanBela_: it is about an inventor and other inventors are visiting him and he explains his works in the garden and castle
(07:04:20 PM) GivanBela_: Canterel imagina un appareil capable de cr?er une oeuvre esth?tique due aux seuls efforts combin?s du soleil et du vent.
(07:04:34 PM) GivanBela_: which means the name of the inventor = canterel
(07:05:11 PM) GivanBela_: and he has a machine that is able to create aesthetical works only based on wind and sun
(07:05:35 PM) abby_ [~abby@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(07:05:37 PM) cuco [~chatzilla@dial-95-105-168-143-orange.orange.sk] entered the room.
(07:05:43 PM) vagabond_ left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
(07:05:43 PM) GivanBela_: the other one is from impressions d'afrique whick describes an imaginary country
(07:05:58 PM) GivanBela_: ? L?horloge ? vent du pays de Cocagne, ?
(07:06:28 PM) GivanBela_: so he describes a wind clock in the land of cocagne
(07:06:41 PM) nelle_ink [~ellen@153.85-200-181.bkkb.no] entered the room.
(07:06:46 PM) GivanBela_: cocagne is again an imaginairy non-existent country
(07:06:47 PM) alexadem [~alex@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(07:07:02 PM) magde: and the canterel's machine is described further?
(07:07:17 PM) GivanBela_: no it is very vague, only one line
(07:07:39 PM) olme: (“pays de cocagne” is a land of abundance)
(07:07:40 PM) GivanBela_: but the horloge a vent is described
(07:07:50 PM) walla_galla [~sposob@dial-95-105-168-143-orange.orange.sk] entered the room.
(07:07:52 PM) vagabond_ [~vagabond@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(07:07:54 PM) GivanBela_: luilekkerland in dutch
(07:08:34 PM) GivanBela_: and actually the horloge a vent can keep track of time, maybe someone can describe the 2nd paragraph a little?
(07:08:49 PM) isjtar: yes so
(07:09:00 PM) magde: it's based on the fact, that the wind in this country is perfectly regular..
(07:09:17 PM) isjtar: it starts from the idea that the wind blows from the west in the morning,
(07:09:28 PM) isjtar: calms down later and at night takes up again
(07:09:42 PM) isjtar: gving a very precise and reliable timeflow
(07:09:53 PM) luke_m [~chatzilla@ip-62-143-206-252.unitymediagroup.de] entered the room.
(07:10:10 PM) isjtar: with a marked upsurge in wind at night, as a fixed time point
(07:10:37 PM) GivanBela_: that is about it = and palo is it ok like this?
(07:10:48 PM) GivanBela_: of course we don't have regularity in ecological things
(07:11:12 PM) GivanBela_: but it could be interesting to make a wind clock to measure time as it advances compared to wind speed
(07:11:32 PM) GivanBela_: so we thought of starting with workshops on how to create windmills
(07:11:33 PM) palo_fabus: yes, thx… now what is so great about it? :D
(07:11:48 PM) GivanBela_: from recycling materials to anemometers
(07:11:57 PM) GivanBela_: and measure a non-linear time
(07:12:16 PM) GivanBela_: now connecting it to your computer you can do things with that f course
(07:12:20 PM) olme: in the text it say that the windclock is better because it works also during the night on the contrary to sun clocks
(07:12:48 PM) GivanBela_: yipppee that is the point isjtar exclaims
(07:13:09 PM) GivanBela_: now, first step is to make individual clocks and connect it to computers
(07:13:20 PM) magde left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
(07:13:31 PM) GivanBela_: second step could be to connect to internet and share the non-linear advancing of time
(07:13:43 PM) GivanBela_: third step is to capture it all in a kind of server
(07:13:58 PM) palo_fabus: ok, but what else would it be than the time of wind masses?
(07:14:01 PM) GivanBela_: so you get all subjective timings, parallell and massive, and distributed
(07:14:20 PM) GivanBela_: so you are getting a non-linear geographical field
(07:14:31 PM) magde [~c26d86c2@gateway/web/freenode/x-wpjpmcyeoykoclwg] entered the room.
(07:14:34 PM) palo_fabus: … yes.. go on..
(07:14:46 PM) palo_fabus: what is it good for?
(07:14:49 PM) GivanBela_: last step is to do things with it and make art works out of it, media artists as we all are
(07:15:06 PM) GivanBela_: one idea in the application (which you can read in the wiki or download even)
(07:15:21 PM) GivanBela_: is to work for instance with radios, online radio schedulers
(07:15:42 PM) GivanBela_: parallell over lapping, sometimes creating silence and sometimes making people work together at the same time
(07:15:53 PM) palo_fabus: I see
(07:15:54 PM) GivanBela_: another idea was a sequencer to play music
(07:16:05 PM) gen_lee [~chatzilla@213.219.158.69.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] entered the room.
(07:16:11 PM) GivanBela_: pop will never be the same again, played back in wind time protocols
(07:16:29 PM) nelle_ink left the room (quit: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
(07:16:53 PM) GivanBela_: in the wiki we try to gather them a little for now and hope that we can document them and work at it together
(07:16:54 PM) GivanBela_: a non linear sequencer
(07:16:55 PM) GivanBela_: windclocks as the engine for collective electronic music performance
(07:16:55 PM) GivanBela_: a meeting maker
(07:16:55 PM) GivanBela_: a radio scheduler
(07:16:55 PM) GivanBela_: a BeeFlowerClock tracking (see also: tik bee keepers)
(07:16:55 PM) GivanBela_: an EkoTimeMachine
(07:16:57 PM) GivanBela_: a time bending clock (TBC)
(07:16:59 PM) GivanBela_: PadMa (public accessible digital media archive)
(07:17:01 PM) GivanBela_: a rainwater clock
(07:17:03 PM) GivanBela_: Wind cameras
(07:17:05 PM) GivanBela_: Breathing time
(07:17:06 PM) nelle_ink [~ellen@153.85-200-181.bkkb.no] entered the room.
(07:17:07 PM) GivanBela_: connected_open_greens
(07:17:09 PM) GivanBela_: http://www.timeinventorskabinet.org/wiki/doku.php/tikideas
(07:17:20 PM) Danielle_r: pfff
(07:17:41 PM) GivanBela_: but the ideas can be added, just that we move on from july on
(07:18:00 PM) palo_fabus: ok, so you would use wind as generator of some specific randomness…
(07:18:11 PM) GivanBela_: with first making wind clocks, then connecting them, then making a server perhaps, then working out the appkicatiions that are illustrations in non-linearity
(07:18:30 PM) palo_fabus: ah, ok
(07:18:33 PM) GivanBela_: no randomness but natural phenomena
(07:18:43 PM) GivanBela_: the world as it is, blowing
(07:18:44 PM) olme: there is no randomness, only rythms you sometime can't predicts …
(07:18:45 PM) palo_fabus: well, yes, their randomness .)
(07:19:03 PM) noiseart: have you heard of the EGG project
(07:19:10 PM) noiseart: electro-gaia-gram
(07:19:23 PM) noiseart: there a many analog random noise generators around the world
(07:19:24 PM) olme: but these rythms are related to other phenomenas and make sense
(07:19:25 PM) palo_fabus: okok, lets leave randomness to the quantum world, lets say arbitrariness, or contingencies..
(07:19:42 PM) noiseart: their data is collected and analysed
(07:20:02 PM) noiseart: the important thing is that the data does semi-predictable things during major events
(07:20:06 PM) olme: even in quantum world … you read too much old physics ;p
(07:20:14 PM) noiseart: the biggest example was the tsunami a few years ago
(07:20:33 PM) Danielle_r: what happened?
(07:20:52 PM) palo_fabus: olme: oh shit :) I have to catch up
(07:20:59 PM) noiseart: the idea is to watch the randomness during major events to see if it is influenced
(07:21:15 PM) noiseart: so during the tsunami, atypical numbers were collected
(07:21:29 PM) noiseart: instead of even randomness, there was a focus
(07:21:53 PM) palo_fabus: you mean something like attractors?
(07:21:53 PM) noiseart: this could also be applied to wind data in some way .. although not with the same 'meaning'
(07:22:29 PM) noiseart: if u are generating pure random numbers then you should get a predictable distribution over time
(07:22:31 PM) palo_fabus: I get it, in a simplified way the wind behaves as a repetition with variation
(07:22:50 PM) nelle_ink: edge of chaos?
(07:22:50 PM) noiseart: but instead you get sudden spikes when certain events happen
(07:23:17 PM) noiseart: i'm not really relating the math very well :) .. but just the basic idea
(07:23:26 PM) palo_fabus: … and there might some beauty to it… is this what you mean by observing the “chaos”?
(07:24:47 PM) GivanBela_: sounds interesting peter, and so we can implement this principle for the analysis of individual wind data and maybe of all data via the server…?
(07:24:53 PM) noiseart: http://noosphere.princeton.edu/
(07:25:02 PM) noiseart: the math is easy to do
(07:25:11 PM) isjtar: this sounds very nice
(07:25:33 PM) isjtar: but what timeframe are you looking at to find any significant relations?
(07:25:44 PM) noiseart: with wind .. it is not truely random .. so it might give some odd results
(07:25:53 PM) noiseart: with the EGG it takes years
(07:26:03 PM) noiseart: but we did a local EGG and it only took 3 months to see stuff
(07:26:10 PM) isjtar: thats what i thought, but also wind is so very local
(07:26:32 PM) isjtar: i'm not sure it would work well in sync with larger phenomena
(07:26:37 PM) noiseart: i think the conceptual link is the interesting part .. measuring the gaia gram
(07:27:04 PM) noiseart: so we don't need to stick to the EGG math .. but reinvent it somehow
(07:27:21 PM) GivanBela_: nice
(07:27:37 PM) stefaniewuschitz left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
(07:28:07 PM) isjtar: nosieart do you want to continue or can olme take over?
(07:28:21 PM) noiseart: olme .. go for it
(07:28:24 PM) olme: ok
(07:28:49 PM) olme: i'll be brief : it's an ongoing project we call “eol-links harps”
(07:29:22 PM) stefaniewuschitz [~stefanie@213162092224.public.t-mobile.at] entered the room.
(07:29:26 PM) olme: it is the idea to build connected wind harps (instruments with cords that sound with the wind)
(07:30:08 PM) olme: so they sound at different rythms because they are at different places
(07:30:16 PM) olme: but you can hear them together
(07:30:36 PM) olme: because they are linked together with free wifi links
(07:30:49 PM) olme: (ad-hoc public network
(07:30:51 PM) olme: )
(07:31:05 PM) olme: there is a page here you can look at :
(07:31:19 PM) olme: http://oliviermeunier.be/ogeem/kiwi2/wiki/doku.php?id=eoliens_sonores
(07:32:12 PM) olme: what can I add … ??
(07:32:28 PM) isjtar: well it's an ancient thing no, windharps?
(07:32:48 PM) olme: yes it's an very ancient “automatic” instrument
(07:33:10 PM) stefaniewuschitz: were you the one showing the underwater harps in prague at the yo yo yo festival, right?
(07:33:11 PM) Danielle_r: i like it!
(07:33:29 PM) olme: stefaniewuschitz: no … :) …
(07:33:36 PM) stefaniewuschitz: oops.. sorry
(07:33:42 PM) olme: but it's a nice idea too !
(07:33:58 PM) stefaniewuschitz: it sounded nice.. sorry i thought it was you :/
(07:34:04 PM) magde: that was michael delia:)
(07:34:07 PM) stefaniewuschitz: oh
(07:34:10 PM) stefaniewuschitz: ok
(07:34:14 PM) mkin: jojo its connected evrything))
(07:34:15 PM) magde: :)
(07:34:34 PM) stefaniewuschitz: :)
(07:35:09 PM) palo_fabus: >]
(07:35:25 PM) olme: yes I would add : it's important for us to work with free software and with the most “simple” tech
(07:36:15 PM) olme: so for now I'm trying to build the generator for this windmill by winding my own coils …. using beagleboard for transmitting station, etc …
(07:36:44 PM) olme: (free as in speach ! )
(07:36:52 PM) stefaniewuschitz: wow winding own coils takes a lot of time i guess
(07:36:52 PM) GivanBela_: lots of work ahead, when will it be ready? I like the idea of the generator for the wind clocks
(07:37:14 PM) olme: stefaniewuschitz: no : I've build a winding machine with an arduino :)
(07:37:26 PM) stefaniewuschitz: cool
(07:37:31 PM) stefaniewuschitz: :D
(07:37:35 PM) olme: it will be ready … when it's ready :p
(07:37:52 PM) olme: but the sooner the better of course …
(07:37:56 PM) GivanBela_: can you power that machine by the power of the wind harps too? so it winds it own windings by wind?
(07:37:56 PM) gen_lee: would be really nice to do do some workshop about this, i mean building generators ourselves
(07:38:20 PM) stefaniewuschitz: but can't we just use old DC motors
(07:38:23 PM) olme: yes I think that generator is realy a common problem
(07:38:28 PM) stefaniewuschitz: as generators?
(07:39:02 PM) olme: yes… but you have to find the right one … which is not easy, and adapt it to the mechanics of the windmill …
(07:39:03 PM) gen_lee: sure dc motors, also work, but you need dc motors which do low rpm
(07:39:04 PM) stefaniewuschitz: yes
(07:39:31 PM) olme: AC motors works too
(07:39:54 PM) isjtar: so stefanie do you want to present a bit?
(07:40:01 PM) GivanBela_: nice
(07:40:03 PM) stefaniewuschitz: yes, one sec
(07:40:23 PM) GivanBela_: so we can do the wind clock building and then immediately one for the generators
(07:40:33 PM) GivanBela_: a workshop I mean
(07:40:43 PM) gen_lee: soundz good to me
(07:40:51 PM) mkin: yes great
(07:40:52 PM) isjtar: indeed
(07:41:15 PM) stefaniewuschitz: hi, i'm back
(07:41:45 PM) stefaniewuschitz: should i talk now?
(07:41:48 PM) isjtar: yes
(07:42:48 PM) stefaniewuschitz: well, i was thinking about the phenomena, that people open up much more in chat rooms, since they are less inhibited by meeting the real person. i thought for TIK the distance could be an advantage to
(07:42:50 PM) stefaniewuschitz: too
(07:43:21 PM) stefaniewuschitz: i'm thinking about this intra-urban “game”
(07:43:23 PM) isjtar: you mean socially less restricted?
(07:43:51 PM) jrhuh [~rohrh@koln-4db42c6b.pool.mediaWays.net] entered the room.
(07:43:59 PM) stefaniewuschitz: maybe more surface for projecting yourself into the other person, since you don't see so many differences at the first sight, if you just see an avatar
(07:44:31 PM) stefaniewuschitz: like people also project themselves into comics and can relate to comics quiet easily
(07:45:05 PM) stefaniewuschitz: So this project would be an intra-urban platform in public space that connects specific sites in cities involved in TIK.
(07:45:35 PM) stefaniewuschitz: The idea is to have people in different urban spaces play with each other via faceexpressions of an avatar that they control.
(07:45:42 PM) stefaniewuschitz: Shop windows at six different places serve as projection canvas for animated Avatars.
(07:45:58 PM) stefaniewuschitz: The animations consist of each one man-sized interactive Avatar which involves people passing by into a conversation. The person stopping at the shop window and interacting with the Avatar at (site A) is video tracked, in order to read his or her face expression. The user's face expression will then get transferred to an Avatar on a different site (site B). On this site B, a webcam tracks the face expression of a second user. The
(07:45:58 PM) stefaniewuschitz: face expressions of the second user on site B is transferred back to site A. The Avatar therefore serves as an interface to a different place in the city or in a different city, with a webcam installed.
(07:45:58 PM) stefaniewuschitz: This way the user slips into the avatar and can communicate with a person on a different place almost like on a maskarade.
(07:46:13 PM) stefaniewuschitz: BUT THIS IS JUST A PROPAL AND TOTALLY OPEN TO CHANGE and HIGHJACKING
(07:46:47 PM) GivanBela_: and wind and time?
(07:46:56 PM) GivanBela_: or just for communicating?
(07:47:14 PM) stefaniewuschitz: it's a machine for synchronous lives
(07:47:36 PM) stefaniewuschitz: it is supposed to be put up in a close distance within one city and also between cities
(07:47:38 PM) Danielle_r: do you read the emotions as well, is that important?
(07:47:57 PM) stefaniewuschitz: so people don't know if they are connected with someone in the same quarter or a different city
(07:48:13 PM) stefaniewuschitz: yes, it should read the face expression with OPEN FRAMEWORKS
(07:48:26 PM) Danielle_r: oh yes
(07:49:00 PM) stefaniewuschitz: i just have some small sketches on this blog i just quickly put up http://deothering.wordpress.com/
(07:49:26 PM) stefaniewuschitz: sorry, no wind, only time
(07:49:26 PM) Danielle_r: i've worked with a program calles face reader, which exctracts facial expression
(07:49:39 PM) stefaniewuschitz: oh, how did you use it?
(07:49:51 PM) Danielle_r: i made an installation
(07:50:08 PM) stefaniewuschitz: can you send the link to the software and your installation?
(07:50:19 PM) Danielle_r: transforming the facial expressions to landscapes
(07:50:21 PM) Danielle_r: yep
(07:50:27 PM) Danielle_r: wait a sec
(07:50:39 PM) stefaniewuschitz: if you scroll down on this blog you see the sketches
(07:51:00 PM) Danielle_r: http://www.numuseum.nl/projects/eden/index.html
(07:51:21 PM) stefaniewuschitz: so it was dark landscapes when you expressed anger?
(07:51:37 PM) Danielle_r: they did sponsor me by the way, it's a dutch company
(07:51:52 PM) Danielle_r: it can read 6 expressions
(07:52:05 PM) stefaniewuschitz: wow that 's more than some people can ;P
(07:52:20 PM) stefaniewuschitz: that's great
(07:52:30 PM) annemiemaes: i like the name stef 'the-othering machine'
(07:52:35 PM) Danielle_r: haha
(07:52:51 PM) isjtar: ok stefi, time's a bit running out, would you like to add something still?
(07:52:59 PM) stefaniewuschitz: i get sponsoring from a gallery in linz,
(07:53:00 PM) Danielle_r: it really works, it's kind of creepy
(07:53:08 PM) stefaniewuschitz: oh no that'S about it for now, just an idea
(07:53:13 PM) Danielle_r: it co$ts a lot…
(07:53:20 PM) stefaniewuschitz: the software?
(07:53:25 PM) Danielle_r: yes
(07:53:32 PM) Danielle_r: but you can hire it
(07:53:39 PM) Danielle_r: get in touch
(07:53:43 PM) stefaniewuschitz: hmm..not open source … a pity.. will ask them if they can make me an offer
(07:53:48 PM) nelle_ink: noldus is a creepy name
(07:53:56 PM) Danielle_r: why?
(07:54:11 PM) nelle_ink: but the installation look sgreat
(07:54:22 PM) Danielle_r: yes, talk to them, they're very open
(07:54:23 PM) nelle_ink: oh because of harry potter..
(07:54:27 PM) stefaniewuschitz: yeah it's beautiful
(07:54:35 PM) Danielle_r: oh, sorry, didn't read that
(07:54:36 PM) isjtar: ok so i'm going to take over a bit :P
(07:54:39 PM) stefaniewuschitz: haven't read harry potter
(07:54:49 PM) stefaniewuschitz: go go isjtar
(07:54:59 PM) isjtar: we are looking at making server applications (this will get technical)
(07:55:30 PM) isjtar: at the moment we have a simple system in place that can read in scripts
(07:55:48 PM) isjtar: and sends them over xmpp (the jabber protocol)
(07:55:57 PM) isjtar: you know google chat and all that
(07:56:28 PM) isjtar: howver some people seem to feel pachube is more appropriate, don't know it very well
(07:56:41 PM) isjtar: and i know noiseart worked on some things too
(07:56:58 PM) noiseart: yes .. but much simpler :)
(07:57:05 PM) isjtar: pachube is this web 2.0 thing
(07:57:09 PM) gen_lee: what can these scripts do?
(07:57:13 PM) vagabond_: sorry what is meant by “read in scripts”
(07:57:14 PM) isjtar: pronounced patchbay
(07:57:38 PM) isjtar: oh, so the program can take any script running on the same comp
(07:57:43 PM) isjtar: thru stdin
(07:57:49 PM) Danielle_r: there's also: http://www.sensorpedia.org/index.php
(07:57:57 PM) isjtar: and relayes it into the xmpp server
(07:58:06 PM) Danielle_r: sounds interesting but i haven't worked with it yet
(07:58:08 PM) isjtar: so you have a chat of sensors really
(07:58:45 PM) isjtar: noiseart: what are those simpler things?
(07:58:56 PM) noiseart: we made our own protocol
(07:59:00 PM) noiseart: plain text
(07:59:03 PM) Danielle_r: About: Sensorpedia is still in a limited beta testing phase.
(07:59:14 PM) noiseart: but it has issues :)
(07:59:21 PM) isjtar: ?
(07:59:38 PM) noiseart: i don't know how technical u want to get ? :)
(07:59:57 PM) isjtar: well technical enough for me to unerstand what it does :)
(08:00:07 PM) GivanBela_: or doesn't
(08:00:21 PM) noiseart: each node sent self defined messages to a central server which posted them to anyone who asked for them
(08:00:30 PM) noiseart: a message might look like this ..
(08:00:37 PM) noiseart: wind speed 4
(08:00:42 PM) noiseart: very simple
(08:00:59 PM) isjtar: not very technical now was it :)
(08:01:02 PM) noiseart: a remote location asks for all 'wind' messages
(08:01:13 PM) noiseart: it's the problems with it that get technical :)
(08:01:34 PM) noiseart: but nothing to hard to fix
(08:01:36 PM) Danielle_r: what do you mean, a remote location?
(08:01:41 PM) Danielle_r: a server?
(08:01:52 PM) isjtar: client i suppose
(08:01:57 PM) olme: nice .. so it also can be streamed over xmpp easely no ?
(08:01:57 PM) noiseart: there was 1 server, and then many remote installation pieces connected to it
(08:01:57 PM) Danielle_r: oh
(08:02:14 PM) noiseart: people used java, flash, MAX, and PD to connect
(08:02:36 PM) Danielle_r: different input or output, or both?
(08:02:44 PM) noiseart: both
(08:02:52 PM) Danielle_r: sounds good
(08:03:05 PM) isjtar: what language did you write it in?
(08:03:15 PM) noiseart: i wrote the server in java
(08:03:21 PM) noiseart: it's fast to develop
(08:03:22 PM) GivanBela_: but basically we can make the format / protocol as simple and complex as we need
(08:03:29 PM) noiseart: yes
(08:03:43 PM) noiseart: so you could also connect xmpp into something like this
(08:04:02 PM) noiseart: each protocol has a 'plugin' so to speak
(08:04:13 PM) isjtar: hmmm thing is, we should limit parallel structures a bit
(08:04:22 PM) isjtar: if only for the sake of dev effort
(08:04:31 PM) noiseart: for sure
(08:04:31 PM) isjtar: because people want OSC
(08:04:36 PM) GivanBela_: and then is it only for wind data, can we do some calculations for instance to make distributions and interpolations, etc… or is that up to the clients to do
(08:04:45 PM) isjtar: and this and that and well…
(08:04:54 PM) noiseart: problems with the simple system ..
(08:05:12 PM) noiseart: the individual artists defines their own messages
(08:05:26 PM) noiseart: which makes them hard to read at the other end unless you know what they are well in dvance
(08:05:32 PM) noiseart: advance*
(08:05:46 PM) noiseart: and the packets are all odd sizes .. very bad for reliability
(08:05:54 PM) noiseart: especially on wifi
(08:05:55 PM) isjtar: tahts worse
(08:05:59 PM) GivanBela_: shouldn't we invent a wind time internet protocol like the big ppl do?
(08:06:16 PM) isjtar: well depends what you mean by it
(08:06:21 PM) noiseart: we cna easily use an existing protocol .. or make one that is reliable
(08:06:31 PM) isjtar: there's an internet clock for music
(08:06:39 PM) noiseart: but u want to be able to use it on an embedded processor (arduino perhaps)
(08:06:42 PM) isjtar: http://netclock.slab.org/wiki/index.php/FAQ
(08:06:43 PM) GivanBela_: well conform to the protocols our computers connect to for time synchronization etc now
(08:07:13 PM) isjtar: thats a good question and a problem for both xmpp and webserverd based things
(08:07:21 PM) isjtar: but the arduino has to connect to the net
(08:07:32 PM) isjtar: and either you ahve to get ethernetshields
(08:07:43 PM) isjtar: or pass by another comp and then you can do it there anyway
(08:07:45 PM) noiseart: i have used WIPorts for connecting from PIC chips (similar to arduino but lower level)
(08:07:53 PM) vagabond_: does wind time have HH:MM:SS format?
(08:08:12 PM) isjtar: SS is not precise enough
(08:08:16 PM) nelle_ink: m/s
(08:08:20 PM) isjtar: i'm into microsound now
(08:08:32 PM) stefaniewuschitz: sorry what is microsound?
(08:08:39 PM) GivanBela_: maybe we should do an overview of existing time protocols and servers, and make a compatible one, so we simply can connect any computer and chip in the world to it
(08:08:56 PM) noiseart: on net 200ms is your fastest reliable packet rate .. sort of
(08:09:11 PM) noiseart: sounds good
(08:09:36 PM) noiseart: also could be useful to have a place for ppl to post info on the kind of data they might want to send and receive
(08:09:43 PM) isjtar: how does the system work that you take for the os clock?
(08:09:55 PM) isjtar: can you publish a service liek this?
(08:10:10 PM) isjtar: like
(08:10:17 PM) vagabond_: are lost/delayed packets acceptable in wind time?
(08:10:27 PM) isjtar: they are desirable
(08:10:28 PM) GivanBela_: only when the wind drops
(08:10:33 PM) noiseart: packets tend to stack up ..
(08:10:51 PM) noiseart: once the server has a big enough chunk of data it send it out
(08:11:01 PM) isjtar: ok
(08:11:03 PM) noiseart: so u don't really lose it so much as it is delayed
(08:11:27 PM) noiseart: it's a real pain on new machines that have very big buffers (they want to send bigger packets)
(08:11:51 PM) isjtar: well one of the problems i see also is that existing protocols are very much oriented towards perfect metere
(08:11:54 PM) olme: do we want it tied to atomic clocks for references or not … ? (like a timestamps for all datas)
(08:11:57 PM) isjtar: which is not what we want
(08:12:08 PM) isjtar: meter i mean
(08:12:12 PM) noiseart: when i do real time stuff ..
(08:12:26 PM) noiseart: i just send huge packets with small bit of useful data in them
(08:12:33 PM) noiseart: it's annoying, but it works
(08:12:44 PM) isjtar: hmmm
(08:12:49 PM) noiseart: not so good if u have 100 ppl sending all at the same time :)
(08:13:51 PM) noiseart: but maybe we don't need real time .. jus something close
(08:14:10 PM) isjtar: i think so, i mean it's wind, it can lag a bit :)
(08:14:30 PM) noiseart: with the 'scrambler' .. the server i wrote ..
(08:14:34 PM) vagabond_: not real time … wind time
(08:14:39 PM) noiseart: the outside world connections ran fine
(08:14:53 PM) isjtar: so hmmm let's make a list of existing things, what we are working on ourselves and syntehsize it
(08:14:55 PM) noiseart: and then connections inside the building where the server was would backup for 2 minutes
(08:15:05 PM) noiseart: and then 'wham' they'd all come thru
(08:15:41 PM) noiseart: maybe a wiki page for notes and links about the server?
(08:15:55 PM) isjtar: yes
(08:16:15 PM) vagabond_: when wind time messages will they be associated with a common timestamp?
(08:16:37 PM) noiseart: can be done
(08:16:45 PM) noiseart: need a local timestamp from the source
(08:16:49 PM) vagabond_: should be done?
(08:16:57 PM) noiseart: thene the server can turn it into a common timestamp
(08:17:05 PM) noiseart: then ppl can use it or not as they like
(08:17:31 PM) GivanBela_: yes let's start a page and start from there, and discuss the protocol and possibilities further how we could do it over the coming time
(08:18:05 PM) isjtar: yes
(08:18:18 PM) isjtar: ok let's finish up